"Product-market fit is a gut feeling."

Iron Brands left his first business to join Simple Analytics ($24k/mo), and the reason boils down to product-market fit.

I caught up with him to talk about PMF, SEO for growth and ideation, and the startup landscape today. 👇

9 out of 10 startups [don't have to] fail

Iron: I hate the quote “9 out of 10 startups fail”. Not only do the LinkedIn VCs preach this, but I hear it more often in our little IH bubble.

James: You don't think it's true?

Iron: Even if it's true, it doesn't have to be.

Yes, if you try more stuff, the chances of making something work are higher. But this is just not the smartest way to approach it if you only have limited resources.

James: What's the smartest way?

Iron: I believe there are a few things that will reasonably increase your chances of success in the first place. This is what I use if I'm thinking about a new business idea:

• Is it B2B?
• Is there a competitor in the space that is doing well?
• Can you find an angle to outdo this competitor?
• Does it have significant SEO opportunities?

4x = LFG

This is not how you build the new AirBnB or Uber, but is that the goal? For 99% of us, it shouldn’t be.

Everyone wants to be the next Elon

James: So you don't want to build the next Uber?

Iron: Dreaming big is fine. I'm glad that some people do this. But in most cases, it's just a made-up thing that is created to impress people.

James: Is that how you feel about funding too?

Iron: I used to be very pro-funding. When I graduated from University in 2018, I did an internship at a financial consultancy. I hated it. At the time, I was reading stuff about startups, and that sounded way more interesting. Getting funding sounded cool.

James: But Simple Analytics is fully bootstrapped, right?

Iron: Yes, it's fully bootstrapped.

James: Change of heart?

Iron: Status-wise, it's cool to be working on something that might turn into a unicorn (even when you know it won't).

But funding has become a goal in itself. A signal to the outside world that you are working on something cool. Your parents will tell their friends about your startup. Techcrunch will write about you.

But VC-funded startups (or those looking for funding) tend to always want to conquer the world with an overly ambitious idea that's not even a product. Everyone wants to be the next Elon.

It would be better if fewer people go this route.

James: For sure. So, across the board, funding is not the way to go?

Iron: Not all funding is bad, but it's not a requirement for a successful business.

James: And it can be a distraction.

Iron: Yeah, a lot of people will spend too much time crafting pitch decks in which they project their revenue for the next five years, together with their total addressable market, and that kind of fluff.

It's like reading startup books instead of building something.

James: Well said.

Iron: You don't need funding, a pitch deck, a revenue projection, or a BHAG (Big Hairy Audacious Goal) to build a sustainable business that provides you with a great living and a lot of freedom.

Throw your map away

James: So what do you need?

Iron: Find a problem worth fixing. Build a fix.

James: Any advice on that?

Iron: Start small; be flexible. Strategy and roadmap will form along the way.

James: So indie hackers shouldn't have a plan?

Iron: Well, everyone starts with an idea or a plan, but the product and roadmap will take shape when users start interacting with what you’ve built.

Start with an idea. Build it. Validate. And iterate. See what works and what doesn't. The feedback you get in the validation phase forms your roadmap.

Switching startups

James: Speaking of roadmaps, let's talk about how you got here.

Iron: After leaving that finance internship, I did an internship at a startup. When the startup died, I decided to start my own business, Fiks, together with two of my best friends.

We just started out with the first thing that came to mind: A marketplace to connect students with internships using WhatsApp.

James: How'd it do?

Iron: When we started, we didn't validate anything. Just went in headfirst and made every possible mistake. Eventually, we made it work and grew reasonably well, but for three years, I was just doing sales, sales, sales, and it was hard!

James: Yeah, that's no fun.

Iron: During this time, I moved to Amsterdam and became a bit more familiar with the Indie Hackers. I met up with a few people, and one invited me for drinks with other indie hackers. This is where I met Adriaan.

Six months after this meeting, we sat down and decided that I would start doing some work for Simple Analytics for one day a week. We both liked this a lot and eventually, we decided that I would join Adriaan full-time as a late co-founder.

James: And you came on board to handle the marketing, right?

Iron: Yeah, we felt like Simple Analytics could be so much bigger if Adriaan could just focus on building the product and let someone else do the marketing.

James: Ah, the technical-founder-looking-for-cofounder unicorn — good find. Does your original company still exist?

Iron: It still exists, and it's doing well.

James: Do you still work with them or did you sell your shares?

Iron: I’m still part of Fiks and help them strategically and with growth, but I'm full-time with Simple Analytics.

James: What was it like transitioning to a different startup while staying involved in the first one?

Iron: It was quite an intense process. Especially because I started this business with my two best friends. I just told them I was working myself into a depression and wanted to do something different.

I was vital for the new business coming in, so we decided I should first find a replacement for myself in the next 6 months.

I found someone and onboarded her in my role, but I still stayed working full-time in the company for six months.

James: Then what?

Iron: Then, I partnered up with Adriaan and split my time 50/50 between Fiks and Simple Analytics. Eventually, I moved full-time to Simple Analytics.

James: What happened with your Fiks shares?

Iron: When we started 4 years ago, we divided our shares equally. However, since my partners are continuing the business, we reallocated some of my shares to them.

I still own a reasonable percentage of the business, and I will keep helping with strategy.

James: How did that negotiation go down?

Iron: It was not a super hard negotiation, to be honest. We wanted everyone to be happy, so basically, the three of us outlined what terms we would be happy with, and it worked out.

James: And the rest is history.

Iron: Yep. Best decision of my life so far.

Product-market fit and gut feelings

James: How so?

Iron: It was super hard to make the internship business grow and keep our clients happy. I needed to constantly grind and convince users to start using our product.

The opposite is true at Simple Analytics. People love it. They tell other people about it, and we grow organically. New users just flow through our onboarding and self-serve signup. It's something I had never experienced before.

James: Do you see that as an indicator of product-market fit (PMF)?

Iron: Yeah. Product-market fit is a gut feeling. You can feel it when it's there. Especially if you have experience with not having it.

It really feels like grinding vs. flowing.

James: In what way?

Iron: The fire is already there, and my marketing efforts are just putting fuel to the fire. At Fiks, I needed to start making a fire every day.

SEO for ideation and growth

James: I'm guessing SEO is a big part of that fire. And you mentioned that it plays a role in your ideation process as well. Tell me more about that.

Iron: People think about SEO only as ranking their page higher in Google, but it's extremely helpful in the ideation phase as well. You can literally see what people are looking for and start building it.

Most products die because no one wants them. By looking at keywords in tools like Semrush or Ahrefs, you can see what people want.

James: True. What else?

Iron: It also tells me something about the chances of long-term success. Building a business takes time, and if I am starting a new product or business, I need to be in it for the long haul.

Before starting a new business, I want to make sure I can rank for the relevant terms in the future. This means that if I built a product in a very “SEO-competitive” market, it will be much more difficult to attract visitors to the website by ranking high in Google for those keywords.

On the other hand, if I see that my relevant keyword gets lots of traffic and is easy to rank for, it is a positive indicator of long-term success.

James: SEO's nothing to sniff at growth-wise either.

Iron: SEO is the ultimate long-haul growth strategy. It takes a while and a lot of effort, but once you get that sweet traffic to your website, it lays the foundation for a sustainable business.

It is the complete opposite of ads, which need constant fuel ($$) to keep producing results. If you stop putting fuel in your ad campaigns, website traffic will dry up.

James: Is it really feasible for early indie hackers to get anywhere with SEO when they're tight on time and money?

Iron: It got us from 1k to almost 7k monthly visitors per month from Google over the course of last year.

James: Fair enough. Is this something founders should start working on right away?

Iron: No. Focus on long-term growth once you’ve established a solid customer base that loves your product.

James: And once they've got a customer base, where should they start?

Iron: Keep it very simple:

• Answer questions that people have (and relate your answer to your product). Just look for “how to” questions relevant to your niche.
• Create BOFU (bottom of funnel) content like "alternative" pages for your competitors.
• Do your keyword research and start going after opportunities.

James: Simple enough. Where can people find you?

Iron: You can find me on X.

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