"The key is to invest little, launch fast, and kill fast."

Daniel Peris has built, operated, and sold multiple businesses ranging from SaaS to mobile apps to blogs to service companies.

I caught up with him to understand how he does it all. 👇

Launch fast; kill fast

James: You've built a lot of successful products.

Daniel: 90% of the things I have built failed. The key is to invest little, launch fast, kill fast, and try to figure out why they didn't work.

And learn FAST.

James: How?

Daniel: Be afraid of very few things. New things don't scare me.

And do, do, do... You learn by doing. The more you do and the faster you do it, the more you learn and the faster you do it.

Do things that you enjoy and motivate you, although there will be times when this will not be the case. This is inevitable. So be consistent.

Never think that what you do is worthless. EVERYTHING you do, even if it doesn't seem like it, is worth something.

And all great things start small. ALL OF THEM.

James: Well said. How do you launch fast?

Daniel: Launch something minimal that customers would be willing to pay for WITHOUT seeking absolute perfection. Far from it.

If you can do it with no code, that's best. If you don't have technical skills and no code isn't an option, pay for the best developer — one who is fast and knows how to ship.

Better done than perfect.

James: And when do you kill a project?

Daniel: The time to kill a project is when you see that time has passed and the project isn't generating enough interest or income.

If a product doesn't work, it should be clear to see. And it is always better to kill fast than to let it die slowly.

You should never fall in love with any business!

The wins

James: So what worked?

Daniel: DimeQuien was a free product with ads that got me my first euro.

I still remember it. It was 2009, and it was a magical moment. It ended up bringing in €25,000, total.

James: Ah, that first dollar. It's an important moment.

Daniel: I realized that there was money to be made in online businesses, and that I was actually capable of it. So I went for it.

James: I'd say. What else?

Daniel: iPadizate was a blog that brought in between 15,000 and €18,000 per month. I sold that one.

I discontinued Cantanding, but it was online karaoke and made €4,500/mo.

I had three mobile app portfolios ranging from $2,500 to €90,000 per month. I discontinued one, sold another, and got banned by Google on another.

TheTool was a mobile marketing SaaS with €27,000 MRR. I sold it.

And I'm currently working on:

• A services company called PICKASO making 7 figures per year
• A weekly newsletter called The Open Projects making €5,500 MRR
• A new SEO SaaS called INDEXED that is making €814 MRR just a few weeks after launch.

James: That's quite a haul. Why were your apps banned?

Daniel: They were banned because of the use of trademarks without trademark consent. Since then I've done things differently — no trademarked materials.

James: What are your thoughts on platform risk after getting banned?

Daniel: Google Play and App Store are closed platforms with quite a lot of risk. Apple and Google have total and absolute control of the products, the business (IAP/subscriptions), and user acquisition.

James: And you're okay with that?

Daniel: I'm okay with the risk. It's the app store's game with its rules and quirks. I keep making apps because I like to keep up to date, I like to diversify, and I like to have different revenue streams.

James: Speaking of diversifying, you've got a 5-month-old baby. How do you do it all?

Daniel: Delegating and relying heavily on partners and teams. Also, since Adrian was born, I've optimized my time MUCH MORE. It's not easy.

How to sell your business

James: You've sold several businesses. What kind of money did you make?

Daniel: iPadizate was sold for around €190,000. We reinvested all that money in PICKASO. The app portfolio was sold for $100,000. I cannot disclose the amount that TheTool was sold for because of the confidentiality agreement, but it was 6 figures. I have also sold more websites, but they have been small operations (10-20k).

James: Does selling tend to be a difficult process?

Daniel: Depends. The sale of iPadizate was formalized over a beer on a terrace in Madrid. The process of selling TheTool lasted more than 7 months.

James: How can indie hackers do it?

Daniel: Build a fantastic product without the objective of selling. Think about growing (non-stop) and have everything well documented and ordered.

James: Is distribution important?

Daniel: My portfolio of apps was sold because the apps had a lot of search visibility in Google Play (ASO)

James: Where do you sell your businesses?

Daniel: Nowadays, if you want to sell your startup, you sell it. There are platforms for this and you can even use Twitter to sell projects — I have sold a few that way.

James: How do you settle on a selling price?

Daniel: Normally, the price of your product is not set by you; it is set by the buyer.

Bootstrapping sharpens your wits

James: Were all of your businesses bootstrapped?

Daniel: With the exception of TheTool, all of my businesses have been 100% self-funded.

James: Why not TheTool?

Daniel: We borrowed money from the bank.

James: Why?

Daniel: To hire a sales team and grow. I think it was a mistake.

I am not saying that sales teams are unnecessary, I am just saying that the last thing this project needed was a sales team. The money should have been invested into the product. Product is the key to everything.

James: Why do you bootstrap most of your businesses??

Daniel: I'm a big fan of bootstrapping. It gives you freedom, you don't depend on anyone. And having few resources sharpens your wits a lot.

The businesses I build don't require a large investment or a lot of resources. iPadizate was built in a few days, the PICKASO website was built in days, TOP (newsletter) was built with NoCode in days. INDEXED was built by 1 person in a couple of months (part-time).

There are businesses that need a lot of funding and a lot of resources, but those aren't the businesses that I start.

James: Any advice for bootstrappers?

Daniel: Even if you have money, even if you have resources, act as if you don't. Like I said, scarcity sharpens your wits. And seeking profitability as quickly as possible is the ideal (and the most fun).

Dabbling in service companies

James: Why go through the hassle of running a services company when you've been so successful with products?

Daniel: Because I love doing things and having a service company is also "doing things".

Everything in life has good things and not-so-good aspects. Our services company PICKASO has allowed me to learn a LOT (managing teams, managing clients, finances, etc.), meet a lot of people, and grow my network exponentially. It also increases the visibility of my products.

James: A lot of indie hackers run micro agencies to pay the bills while they build their products. Any tips?

Daniel: The key for a services company to work and scale is to delegate and build a good team. At PICKASO, we have a spectacular team.

Every digital company needs SEO

James: You're a digital marketer at heart. What's the silver bullet?

Daniel: It may sound cliche, but the key to marketing a product is... The product! The product must work properly and do what it says it does, it must be easy to use, and it must have a "wow" effect.

That last one is difficult to achieve.

James: So build it and they will come?

Daniel: Well, with a product that does all of the above, you need to get good partnerships, work with affiliates, find the right content creators to talk about your product, and do SEO. Actually, you should probably start doing SEO even before launching.

James: Is SEO something that smaller businesses can win at?

Daniel: Sure, indie hackers can succeed with SEO.

James: How?

Daniel: By doing it, and doing it well. Oddly enough, SEO is often the great forgotten tool of indie hackers.

Yes, #BuildInPublic is all well and good. It works. But IMO, you shouldn't put all your eggs in one basket or rely so heavily on a single customer acquisition channel.

James: So what does "doing it well" entail?

Daniel: SEO has three very strong components. It's not just a matter of using good meta tags.

There's a technical component, a content/landing page strategy component, and a notoriety/authority component. Not to mention market and keyword research, website architecture/internal linking, and many other things.

I try to approach SEO from a technical, but "creative" point of view: You must have an almost perfect website at a technical level and you can be (very) creative with content, link building, etc. It all adds up, and doing things differently and being original adds up even more.

James: That's a lot.

Daniel: All my businesses have had and still have a strong organic growth component — either SEO for websites or ASO for apps. I sincerely believe that, to some extent, it should be so in all digital businesses.

James: What were your biggest SEO wins?

Daniel: iPadizate grew to 3M visits per month with SEO. TheTool grew to €27,000 MRR with SEO. All the websites I have built, grown, and sold have grown with SEO. If anyone wants to know anything about app marketing, Google it and PICKASO comes up.

James: You're not messing around.

Daniel: I'm not a guru or a super expert in SEO, as it's not my day-to-day, but I can't conceive of not doing SEO in my businesses.

Business is hard

James: Any parting words?

Daniel: Starting and growing a business is HARD. Super hard.

You have to be ALWAYS on top of your game, 100% up to date, know a lot of things, never stop learning, and be prepared for all the bumps that can come your way.

James: Why do you do it?

Daniel: I do it because I LOVE doing it. It makes me happy.

And because I don't know how to do anything else.

James: Where can people find you?

Daniel: INDEXED.pro is the new SEO tool I just launched. It's a product I'm very proud of that has reached €814 MRR in just a few weeks with hardly any marketing.

You can also find me on X.

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