Almost 40 and I am broke. Again.

que dificil estar en esa situación. Es frustrante saber que tienes las herramientas para hacer algo y avanzar pero tambien exite ese algo en tu interior que te detiene.

"The more I worked, the more I failed. The more I failed, the more I worked." this is something that I could have said.

I won't give you some bland words of encouragement but know you are not the only one going through this.

45 and broke again also. Totally exhausted. I never give up. I had to rest for a bit though which was not easy as broke means broke - hardly able to eat. All computer hardware and tech warn into the ground and no credit. Just a head full of vast creativity, knowledge and drive.

Single dad apart from both my lads - so on I go … I feel anyones pain who’s struggling.

I know I’m entitled to nothing though - it will come it must for my childrens sake .

I can relate to this 100%. In fact, I can relate to it so much, that I'm writing a book about how I ended up in the ER with the exact same symptoms you describe and the feelings of not having "Enough".

What has helped me was philosophy and especially Buddhist ideas of detachment. You see, the younger version of me was so ambitious that by the time I turned 30, I collapsed like a house of cards from not obtaining everything I once sought.

https://jondouglas.dev/enough

Man, looking at all the other comments here it's clear that you are not alone. I thank you very much for your honesty, I know for sure that it helps a lot of people by you being this open. I know it did for me.

I am 35 years old myself. I quit a very lucrative job to start my own company over 6 years ago and it seems that financially I have been stuck for the past 6 years. I live in a way too expensive apartment which I can barely pay for, the intern who I hired at my previous job makes 26x more than I did last year (no joking), I am many kg's overweight and I have started to loose my hair.

But I hang in there because I believe in what I am doing. Most days are though but I keep the hope that the future will be better. My dad instilled an important lesson in me when I was small: always work 2x harder than anyone else you see around you and you will make progress.

Take care Jose Leon, all the best!

I'm 45 and I can fully relate with what you're going through. It's the unspoken truth of entrepreneurial life buried under the glory of the hustle culture.

Here are some things that worked for me.

Immediate actions you can take to improve your mental state:

• Sleep and wake up early, same hours everyday: No positive thought comes to mind at 4am.
• Eat well: No alcohol, sugar, simple carbs and not too much caffeine.
• Work out, preferably outside: 15 min of doing any workout is enough to start getting benefits. Sweet spot for the level of workout is to get your heart pumping but not too much that you won't be able to talk.
• Meditate every day for 10 min: Your mind needs daily workout to be able to stay in the present moment rather than the depressing past and anxiety filled future.

In the long run, I find that it's important to try and change the mindset. Your sentence "The more I worked, the more I failed. The more I failed, the more I worked." says a lot. I believe that being well educated, experienced combined with a persevering personality is the cornerstone of success . But at the same time it's the source of misery. It can lead to:

• Chasing a difficult life: It causes the person to chase difficult projects and hence difficult life. Feeling like life can only be meaningful if it's difficult.
• Over complicating: The experienced mind works like an optimization function for a high tech lemon factory, where as in reality you only need start selling a single lemon.

For these problems, I find that a simple thought experiment works like a charm. Take a pen and paper (no computers) and imagine your life being very easy. Projects and jobs you worked on were very easy, making money was very easy. Write down how it would look like. How would your daily life, work life and your relationship with your work look like. It's very important that you write as it comes to your mind, don't overthink anything, just write. When you're finished, go through what you wrote and you might find some insights on how to do things differently.

I know it sounds silly. But believe me, "just keep on trying and suffering till you make it" will not work. Times like these are alarm bells letting us know that things need to change. And since making any significant change in our lives is very difficult, it's always best to start with small steps on the easiest path.

I recently ended up in the emergency room with chest pains. Afraid I was having a mild heart attack. Ran up thousands of dollars in tests. Turns out I was experiencing anxiety for the first time. All while making more money than I would have ever dreamed.

I can totally relate. I started getting dizzy/having panic attacks for no apparent reason, I thought it was my sugar levels, but after paying more attention to it, I noticed a pattern: the panic attacks only appear after an intense work period OR after being too worried about the future and having to take many big decisions in a short timespan.

What makes it even worse is that the "easy" way out and safety net of getting a job is, in practice, a lot harder to achieve because once you are an indie-hacker and run your own projects, future employers might avoid hiring you as you might not be 100% dedicated to your full-time job. Does it matter that you have a vast amount of experience in development, product, marketing and more? Not really, most jobs are for specific roles in which you are only required to use a small subset of your skills.

To be honest, the indie-hacking scene is a bit of a luring trap, that once you get into it's very hard to escape, even if you want to.

Reading through all the comments, it almost seems that landing in the ER with a panic attack masquerading as a heart attack is almost a rite of passage for IH'ers. I too have been there.

I think there have been plenty of words of encouragement, so I will refrain from issuing those. With the exception of stating the obvious; this too shall pass.

Getting into Buddhism (especially meditation) and Stoicism have had a massive positive impact on my life. If you're up for it, give Ryad Holiday's The Obstacle Is The Way a chance.

I have also used a professional therapist, who specializes in dealing with startup founders. Sherry Walling (Rob Walling's wife). Can't even put into words how much of a help she's been during the darkest days. I guess the takeaway here is to never be afraid to ask for help.

If you'd like to chat, feel free to hit me up any time.

Hi Jose!

I'm going to be in Barcelona which is only a short train ride away on March 16/17. Let me know if you want to grab a coffee and have a chat. Human contact helps in my opinion :)

Best
Johannes
Founder of Leadsie.com, bootstrapped to $15k MRR

You're not alone. I've been at points where I burn out and need time away from projects, side gigs etc.

I noticed it is usually preceded when I sleep longer, I fall asleep at the PC and feel exhausted etc. I think its just my body saying take a break. And I do. Even if its for two weeks.

RE: as you saying "I have to make it. I need to win. I'm tired of losing."

You or anyone reading the post don't "have to make it". What should be said is "I have to create enough revenue where I can comfortably focus on pushing my projects, SAAS, business without stress" and move up to the next step.

Anyway time may be of the essence (in 2 weeks I'll be 2 years older than you) but time out is essential.

And keep in mind the average age of successful startup founder Is 45. So there's another 1826 days to not be "broke", emotionally or financially.

I have experience similar situation. During Greek Economic crisis, i had closed 2 of my business, fire employees and also i had medical issues because of stress. But I don't give up. You should not give up. This a great opportunity for a new start !
Stay focus and stay calm. Start with healthy living, rest, relax take a walk or anything else that help you then start working again. Split project to small daily tasks. Established a daily routine. Start be productive by doing small tasks and move to big projects.

I’m 39 and gonna broke again 😭

You need the courage to share this as well. You are brave my friend @jrleonr
I'm 35 and for the last 3-4yrs, I have had numerous breakdowns and a lot more. If you think it is okay, we can catch up sometime and I'm a total stranger :).

I actually reached out for mental health and everything else possible and learned a few things which I'm applying and so far it has been good, it is not a smooth ride but a much better ride. In the chaos of working, achieving, buying, paying etc....we don't really live and when you live properly and are calm inside. Things do fall back in place slowly.

Warriors fall but then they rise again! And we are all in this together and I guess the ones who go through pain can understand what it feels like, hitting rock bottom and we can be here for each other in every sense possible ....and then again the satisfaction and achievement of rising from the bottom is something not everyone get's to experience. And stronger we become :)

Sending your way positive vibes!

I feel this confessional will hit home with a lot of people trying to achieve success in some way or another. I find this particularly true when it comes to business. On one hand, the confidence to keep trying is what you sets you apart from those who give up. Just going by the law of averages, at one point you will experience a form of success because of it. However, there's another side to it. You're in this cycle where to keep trying it means to keep believing, which means to keep holding on. This holding on consumes a lot of energy. To sustain it, you have to get more energy in than what you consume; similar to when you want to lose weight only in reverse. You said it well, it is better to work 2 hours everyday on your side hustle or projects than doing 12. Doing only 2 allows you more time to get energy in. Having hobbies, playtime, outdoor time, family/friends time, gym time, naps, meditations, etc. are all ways to get energy coming in. These are activities that for some reason generate more mental energy and space in your life than what they require to perform them. So really, everything's possible. Giving up should never be an option unless it is completely out of your control. Just make sure you don't let the 'trying' consume you. Balance is everything.

José León, un abrazo fraternal.

El trabajo duro, no es la respuesta. Aquel preciado don y hacer de él un negocio, tampoco es la llave.

Ser talentoso, en la juventud, se tornaba como un impostor. Nos creíamos únicos. Ahora, en la madurez vemos la realidad.

Y mientras perdíamos tiempo en imaginar qué podría ser, muchos ni siquiera nos percatábamos que la venta, como profesión, era la respuesta.

This is why I encourage indie hackers to take profit on happiness as early and often as possible.

Because we don't know what the future holds.

We might die suddenly, or sometimes our hard work just doesn't pay off, at least not within the timeline we initially expected.

You're correct in saying that there's no other path other than to keep trying.

If you're going to give up, you might as well just end it all right here right now.

My point is to work hard towards your ambition, but also take some time to smell the roses, travel around the country/world, nurture your relationships, explore new hobbies, etc.

You deserve to do that, regardless of how successful you presently are in your career.

Would you be happy if you died now, having worked really hard throughout most of your adult life but with little (yet) to show for it, and you still haven't completed a tenth of your life's bucket list?

I bet you will regret it for the rest of your life.

Start loving yourself more. Start living life now.

Succeed or fail, at the very very least, you'll have your happiness and peace of mind, knowing that you've made the best out of this monumental gift called Life.

Thanks for sharing, takes a lot of courage (especially these days where everyone pretends to live THE perfect life)

I can recommend a book that really changed my way of thinking & gave me so much to think about: "To have or to be" by Erich Fromm

In short: you can either focus your time on this world on "having" (own a car, a house, a career, a partner,...) and trying to protect and maintain these possessions or you focus on "being" (experience a sunrise, be with a partner, be a friend,...). So much time is spent on comparing what we have achieved with other people, but so little time is spent on fully experiencing and enjoying things without having the urge to "show" it to others.

So I guess as a founder, or just in general as a person, it's common to only focus on the obvious success of something, how much did I earn, how much time did I put in, how are my peers doing... but the experience we gain, how much starting your own project can enrich your life, meeting new people, having great discussions, thinking about one thing the whole day just to change it again the next day, all these emotions added so much to my life (even if they didn't add any money)

You may feel broken or inadequate, but ultimately none of its your fault. Your body and mind are being asked to function in a manner that they clearly don't enjoy.

You're almost 40, and you're still focusing all of your attention on work and how to sustain yourself day to day. This is the sad reality of life for nearly everyone, but I hope you're able to take some time to yourself and try to find meaning and purpose outside of just existing to work.

I am so sorry you have to go through this. It is a vicious cycle. The clues your body is giving you are very obvious if you know what you are looking for. When you wake up at 3 am every night it means that your liver is unable to process substances that are inside your system. This could be food related, supplements, alcohol, a combination of all of the above. Dry eyes and dry skin are confirming this. It can also be environmental. In case you have some mold in your home. It would cause similar symptoms.

Traditional medicine does not look at the root cause of these symptoms, which is why ER visits are not going to give you any relief.

You can very simply identify and diagnose the substances that you are consuming or exposed to, that your body does not like, yourself. Just listen to your body. Use all your senses. Don't eat processed or deep fried food. Go to a store and look at the produce. See, feel, sense what your body is longing for. You'll find out, just listen to what your body will signal to you. For immediate and quick relief on the sleep front, get Magnesium but not supplement pills. It could very well be that you are currently intolerante to gluten and almost all supplements are made with yeast capsules. Get the German brand effervescent Magnesium tablets. Drink lots of water, only eat warm food, mildly spiced and try to eat organic as much as possible. Reduce gluten and add blueberries to your diet in any form. That's all first aid and will get you to get some sleep and rest. With that - and the magnesium, anxiety and depressive thoughts will subside and you will be able to see more 'clearly'.

Good luck!

"I'm getting closer to 40, and I keep repeating: I have to make it, I have to make it. I need to win. I'm tired of losing."

Tío, me parece que haz caido en tremenda trampa mental. Hermano, qué es lo que estás perdiendo? Qué es lo que tienes que lograr? Por qué ostia importa tanto? Cuando te mueras, a quienes le van a dar ataques de pánico porque tu negocio no tuvo suficientes usuarios? Quisiera exhortarte a leer los libros de Mark Manson y el libro llamado "The Psychology of Money." No te conozco y no quiero juzgarte en público porque no te conozco. Pero hay mucha, mucha gente que tiene pensamientos parecidos a estos inclusive estando a un nivel donde ganan millones de dólares al año. Estos problemas que tienes no se arreglan ni con éxito (whatever that is) ni con dinero, se arreglan desde adentro de tí. Te deseo lo mejor.

I can related what you feel now, i was at this point before and now i am better, making right choices.

Here's what i did...

1. Stop trying to do all at once, just do one at a time, or dont do it all. Sometimes being not busy is a good thing.

2. Make health is your no:1 priority - Daily workout ( 30 mins atleast), yoga ( stress relief), meditate ( focus ), walk in eve (breath fresh air).

3. Stop using social medias / news, try read a book, listen podcasts. Keep you engaged and make you see the world differently.

4. Most important of all, talk to your spouse everyday and play with your kid. Have no gadget time.

5. Remember you are not alone! People are good, world is good. Smile about your failures, and learn it. Keep moving!

No one told me this, but i learned it over the time. I am comfortable where i am and know what i want at the end of the day.

Hope it helps. :)

I think deep down all of us know that balance is important but probably everyone here is suffering to different degrees the imbalance highlighted by this post. Personally, I don't know if I have ever been able to fully disconnect from work (a new challenging project, an important meeting or a startup idea is always lurking around in my head). Even taking a vacation doesn't work.

Only thing that works for a couple of hours is playing a competitive sport. I would like to do it everyday but it is so difficult to get time and find people to play with everyday.

You're doing great by acknowledging the need to take care of yourself. Remember, progress isn't just about speed—it's also about finding balance and looking after your well-being along the way. You're not alone in this journey, and taking steps to prioritize self-care is a powerful choice. You're on the right path!

Being broke sucks.

But do you know what sucks even more? Being sick!

I've experienced both in my life, and if I had to chose, I'd go for 'broke' anytime.

Hey León,

This is coming from a person who has dealt with a fair share of triggers, Got diagnosed with depression, was on meds .. still is on meds actually.

It gets better I don't know how but it does get better, I am in a much better place and If I look back and come up with a bunch of how it got better, I really can't pinpoint but trust me just hang on and it will soon get so much better.

Sending you so much positivity and love.

You are not alone.
I'm turning 40 in 3 days.
Got laid off in July. Had to leave NYC and moved back to Shanghai.
I was working on a side project from 6 months ago and it is showing some traction, gathered a small team and invested my savings to work on a bunch of other product ideas. Not sure if it's going to fly. Panic attacks often.

Hey, thanks for sharing. I also deal with a lot of anxiety and I think it's because of the pressure I put on myself. I've found that when I'm relaxed, my results are much better. If you'd like to chat over phone or zoom I'd be happy to connect.

New guy here. Been browsing IH for a few hours and this is the first post that really touched me.
I'll be 47 later this year, although I really don't want to celebrate another year of failure.

Reading through the many many comments below (and above) it appears this is very common today with many people.

Just know you are not alone amigo.

"The more I worked, the more I failed. The more I failed, the more I worked"

Brilliantly/sadly said, so much truth in that statement. All the best to you and those suffering around us.

this is a very hard experience and you should share it with other people! such a state will not lead to good consequences. think about why you are trying to win and whom? It seems to me that this is the case when you need to start working for your own pleasure. just relax. I had a similar situation when I was studying. I took learning very seriously and tried to memorize every word. I had a very hard time with this. I studied day and night. Then I realized that I could not pass the exam, and I had to turn to the company https://uk.edubirdie.com/research-papers-writing for help, they helped me a lot here. I was glad of this, and then I realized that the simpler and easier you treat the tasks, the better the result can be. all the problems in our head

Perhaps take life at a smaller bite-size. Tackle one small task at a time. Also, remember to breath. There are things in our life that we cannot control, but we can control how we look at it.

Did you exercise and eat healthy over the years?
Stuff like vegetables and adequate macro nutrients?
Do you take multi-vitamins?

I found this personal story and I thought about you. ...."I just wanted a change."..." I felt immense self-love for the first time and it helped me quiet my mind."...
Another biz story, given your love for writing.

I feel your pain. I'm very much in a similar place. 41 and lost a $6million business through COVID. I'm struggling. Real bad.
My core experience is in marketing and thankfully I have a very good brother who is a coder so we are on the lookout for a new project.
I suffer from anxiety every day. How I get over this I don't know...can only hope time heals.
I have always had cash in the bank and now it's month to month....I so desperately want to escape and get back to how things were

Calm down. Go to a psychologist, and try to not repeat things that led you to fail!

Life is a roller coaster. You will be on top again eventually.

Stay strong, Jose. You're not alone.

To Jose and everyone experiencing health effects from stress: please know how damaging work stress can be long term. In my daily work at OrgVitals, we have research called "work determinants of health" where it's very clear that work stress can lead to chronic disease and major heart issues. Please get help and change your work. Personally, I started seeing a coach which helped me create a practice to mitigate stress. Everyone is different though, in terms of finding the right coping mechanisms.

ps: There's a group starting a community / Web3 cooperative called Pacity DAO to form a band of people looking to support each other. Check out Pacity.xyz if you want to get involved.

"but my skin was dry, my eyes were dry, my soul was dry."

Man, this hit me. This is exactly where I was for several months recently. Might still be there somewhat. But I found that slowing down, realizing as long as I'm breathing I still have time to finish my projects (even if I need to go back to work to replenish savings), and showing up consistently each day - even if just for an hour or two - makes a world of difference.

Hope you feel better soon. Good luck.

Stay Strong, my Friend. I am sure you will be able to sort it out.

forget everything and move on

Jose, lamento que estes pasando por una situación de mierda como la que cuentas. Ojalá que pronto puedas encontrar un trabajo y salir de todo eso lo antes posible.

"The more I worked , the more I failed . The more I failed , the more I worked ." This story tells we need to consider our mental and physical both health.

May be you should redefine what winning means to you? Sometimes lowering expectation helps. You see all other people around you or here on indiehackers being successful and you start to think - "I want to have that". In that scenario, you are not being yourself. We, humans, are mimetic animals, we want what all other humans around us want. We want the same things.

It's better to focus on oneself and try to define what you want. If you don't know what you want, then you will never get what you want.

Life is a journey and not a destination. Similarly, winning is great, but the fun is in the process.

Yesterday took Paul McCartney less than one minute to write. It came to him in a dream. I know it took him his whole life to be able to write a song like that in less than a minute. But it makes me wonder if we're all in the wrong business.

All my best wishes 🙏
I’m struggling with mental breakdown myself and I know how hard it can be. I went the same path as you and had exactly the same reaction.
You’re not alone!
I’ve reduced my number of work hours, and try to exercice everyday so I can empty my head. I’m also seeing a therapist and there is no shame in that, it helps a lot 😊

Why do you think 40 is something important? Many people started big things after their sixties - I know, everyone wants to be free and successful as soon as possible (me too).

Take it slow, focus on the worst-case scenario (maybe that's already now? maybe from now on is going to be only better?), don't push yourself too much, take it slow.

You are already far before other people if you are here, just be patient and do something consistently.

I hope you will find your way!

Thanks for sharing this story. I feel the same way and I have written about it here before too. One thing that I realized is that you are the most important asset of your business, more than marketing, the product, or sales. Without you, there is no business! So it is important for you to be happy and healthy!
If you need some extra motivation have a look into WBE Space we are both full/part-time entrepreneurs working in our projects and supporting each other :)

I know how this feels, especially when you watch others pass you in less time or without putting in as much work. I know "comparison is the thief of joy" but it's human nature to compare. When that moment of comparison to someone who's doing "better" than you is over though, I've found it's important to also compare yourself to someone whose not doing as well, or doesn't even have the opportunity to do the things you do. That usually grounds me back in reality and helps me feel grateful for where I'm at.

Hey José, thank you for this honest post.

I also experienced a personal breakdown/burnout/depression in 2012.

I was a successful lawyer and had money, but I was on the wrong track. The constant lying in my job made me sick. So I had to break out and start all over again.

I still struggle with building all new, and I still make lots of mistakes, but life goes on.

I had and sometimes still have moments, where I don´t know, what to do.

But in 2018 my life changed completely. I read the Bible, understood the gospel, and decided to give my life to Jesus.

This was the biggest pivot in my life.

Since then, I know that the Lord Jesus is on my side and he helps me in any situation. I literally experienced wonders of many different kinds in my daily life and I can witness with certainty, that He is alive.

To make things short, this is my recommendation for you:

1. Get a bible and start reading the new testament. i.e. John or Luke
2. Seek contact with Christians in your neighborhood.
3. Hand your life over to Jesus and let him do it.

As long, as you try to accomplish it in your own power, you will fail.

When you start to hand over your life to Jesus, you can walk in His power and prevail.

Don´t get me wrong. I still have struggles in my life and I´m definitely not perfect, but I found peace and the Lord Jesus strengthens me every single day to keep going.

If you want to chat with me, let me know.

I will pray for you.

God bless you,

Peter

And this is for you, José:

He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty. I will say of the LORD, He is my refuge and my fortress: my God; in him will I trust.

[Psalm 91,1-2]

El que habita al abrigo del Altísimo se acoge a la sombra del Todopoderoso.
Yo le digo al Señor: «Tú eres mi refugio, mi fortaleza, el Dios en quien confío».