Does my product suck? Or is it me?
How do you tell the difference between not finding product market fit and just being horrible at marketing?
So much of the cold outreach I do is ignored. Or I get a response like the one just now: "No thank you, Derek. Please don’t contact me again." No reason given as to why.
I've tried different wording in my emails. I've re-written the text on the home page (https://www.tipalink.com) at least 10 times. I've spent a lot of time on developing more product features and making the UI look pretty decent. I've created an extensive FAQ and Blog for people to learn more. I've even tried to find a growth co-founder for some months now and with no success. The barrier to entry is super low and most everything is offered for free right now, as I planned to offer a premium subscription with more features only after attracting a sufficient number of base users.
Does my product suck? Is it time to throw in the towel?
Or is it me? Have I not got enough eyeballs on it yet? Am I failing to build user trust?
How do you tell the difference?
40 open-source gems to replace your SaaS subscriptions 🔥 🚀
After 19,314 lines of code, i'm shutting down my project
Need feedback for my product.
We are live on Product Hunt
Don't be a Jerk. Use this Tip Calculator.
Your website is speaking to everyone and no one in particular.
Who is your target audience? Bloggers who want to monetize their traffic? Rewrite your homepage making this explicit.
Why should a blogger use Tipalink instead of another solution like Buy Me a Coffee? Again make this explicit.
If I target a particular audience, don't I run the risk of turning away others?
Like, I see bloggers as a top candidate, and we have some, but then if another potential creative (artist, musician, podcaster, youtuber) stumbles upon it they'll say, "oh, that's not me". And it gets even more confusing when I'm trying to market to business like a newspaper or other 3rd party publishing platform.
I've addresssed the value prop in some other comment responses, but I get your point. Perhaps that indicates a need to have multiple different brands/domains targeted at different market segments?
I think you have to start with a narrow audience, gain traction and then add another audience or expand your audience. But to start, you target a narrow audience.
Interesting, that's certainly different than I'd have thought, but I guess it makes sense to focus my efforts, especially considering how poorly I've been doing so far. Given my the number of upvotes and responses your comment has received, I think I'll make a play to narrow my approach to maybe one or two and see how that goes. Cheers
I think the key thing to understand is timing. It is not that you are turning away customers permanently. It is that you are turning them away for now so that you can win them from a stronger position in the future.
Definitely, start as narrow as you can and find a niche. Then you can start to expand to other audiences.
This.
You could try creating multiple landing pages for different audiences. Go to the footer of the Patreon homepage and take a look at how they do it: they created different pages for different use cases.
This always seems counter-intuitive from a tech perspective because your product can handle so many scenario's. However, if you think of it from a marketing perspective, it becomes way more obvious. Let's say you are a musician in this case. You see another musician using Tipalink and you think, hmm. Maybe I could use that. You go to the site and see it helps musicians get paid and its really easy to set up. It describes how to use it from a musicians standpoint. How to add it to their shopify, youtube, soundcloud accounts etc. They can see themselves using it.
Now, from another angle. Same musician sees it on a blog. They think its for bloggers, they probably don't visit it, but hey they need some extra money. They visit your site, see that it integrates into wordpress and it says musicians can use it. But its not 100% clear from this musician's standpoint, who is a musician, not a tech entrepreneur on how they could benefit from this as a musician. So, they move on.
Also to note: when companies move beyond their initial niche, many of them still have landing pages specific to each of their target audiences. Tailored specifically to how they can help each type of user and with specific examples of others who have done it successfully. So even if you visit a page that looks like it makes sense for you, their are likely other landing pages out there in how they help a different audience as well.
Ex. Patreon.
For podcasters:
https://www.patreon.com/c/podcasts
For musicians:
https://www.patreon.com/c/music
For writers:
https://www.patreon.com/c/writing
https://nathanbarry.com/sales/ read that
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Hey Derek, it's funny cause I was going to make a post about a very similar issue I'm having. I can't really offer much of a solution but I can say that you're definitely not alone on this.
Add some social proof. Ask your best customers if you can post their earnings on the home page. "I earn $50 per month with TIpalink" This will incentivise others to sign up. (Spoiler alert: fake it at first)
What's your USP?? That should be there instantly when i open your page.
What are you offering to make me stay and not go to PayPal (familiarity), Patreon (recurring) or Buy me a coffee (ease of use)
Huh, never heard that acronym before; just looked it up. Point taken.
There are two key differences (1) tips are received on content, by it's web address; and (2) tips accumulate in tabs, which can be paid like a bar or restaurant tab. Before BMC v2 came out, I have a third unique difference, and that was the on-site plugin. But now BMC has that as of ~3 months ago.
Which do you think I should concentrate on? I used to have "Turn Likes and Page Views into Real Money" at the top, which I thought conveyed (1), but then I worried it was too spammy sounding after I had trouble with my social media ads being flagged (incorrectly) as spam.
Yeah tbh "Turn Likes and Page Views into Real Money" is neither a good (sounds like spam) nor a true claim (you're forgetting to add that it's donation and not pay per view etc.)
To be frank, it looks like you're viewing your project through your own (developer) eyes and not the customers POV. This is possibly the #1 mistake indie hacker developers make. You think "Oh im gonna add this cool feature and that cool progress bar and customers will come floating in".
No, you need to one up your already very fierce competition. Technically, it should be much cheaper for me to use PayPal directly for donations (which most people recognize as a widespread payment method) and cut out the middle man (you) so i can keep more of my donations. PayPal also has a web form that i can embed.
Putting myself in the perspective of a blogger (your target audience):
To not be all critique, giving the user a choice of three donations amount is a solid marketing decision.
You're right, I'm stuck mostly looking at it from my own bubble. I've had some previous outside feedback and the responses here have been very valuable. But I'm still dev-oriented. That's where a good co-founder could really help, I suppose.
It's not cheaper to use PayPal, because Tipalink doesn't charge a transaction fee. This is explained on the Pricing page, which is linked in the main menu. Perhaps I should focus on that "NO Fee" on the home page to make it clear.
Tipalink offers multiple payment methods, but I haven't finished building all of the out. Right now it's PayPal and Check/Money Order. Bitcoin and Interledger integrations are next. I'll be sure to emphasis that, as well.
Thanks again for the critical analysis. I need it! Cheers
I wouldn't say that your product sucks at all. You are looking to solve a problem that a lot of companies are looking to solve (monetization for creatives) with a creative solution (tipping). As someone who is working in a similar niche, I would have a few questions upfront:
These are some questions that I get from looking at the product, i.e. assuming that you put a lot of work towards getting the word out and cold emailing, but not really seeing any sign-ups.
I haven't gotten these harsh replies to cold emails since I stopped sending bad cold emails. Maybe we should take a look at that one too. Cold emails are hard, and to me it sounds like you might be aimlessly pitching people with a boilerplate message?
Some users have received tips and I plan on writing some blog articles to feature some user stories. But it's an inverted pyramid and I need more users to highlight more success stories. Chicken before the egg.
The value prop has been repeated in my responses to other comments here and at https://www.tipalink.com/blog/5-reasons-to-start-using-tipalink. Perhaps it's not enough, which is why I'm thinking of throwing in the towel. But based on the response here, I think I'll tweak my marketing approach and give it another 6 months.
My cold emails probably suck. And I probably haven't done enough towards getting the word out. I've tried many different implementations. I need help. Some people are good at marketing and others at product development. I wouldn't ask a marketer to build a product, or at least I wouldn't expect as good a result as from a dev (and certainly not within the same time frame). I know I'm not great at marketing and I need help.
Thanks for your strong honest feedback.
Hi Derek,
I think there are some issues with how you're communicating your product and value proposition.
I think you need to really hone in and focus on the :08 mark of your video. That screenshot should be the next thing after your hero image, or perhaps it should be your hero (and move video slightly lower). IMO, the customer images should not go ahead of the aforementioned screenshot, as to me the screenshot is what tells the story of what you do (at least a good amount) and nobody will care who your customers are if they don't get what you're doing immediately. Also I'd change the word "profile" to "customers", as it seems more professional and less social networky, and make the photos less large so the who they are and where they are from stand out a little more.
So is this a product where a business will simply embed the widget on their homepage and then be able to accept tips similar to the classic PayPal donate button, or as another poster mentioned, buy me a coffee?
That's well and good if so, but perhaps there's another angle here that can help you standout more. Have you thought of perhaps encouraging a business' or nonprofit's supporters to embed your product into the supporter pages/blogs and have others vouch for tips on behalf of the organizations in addition to the business that is wanting to get tipped themselves? That could have a multiplier effect for you and is perhaps more distinct. I don't know why, but I find the branding sort of trips me up conceptually too, maybe TipMyLink? Not superfluous links, but a call to action for my link.
Hope you can appreciate my humble grain of salt!
Curious, did you build your site in bubble?
Thanks for your thoughtful response!
You're so right. If someone doesn't click the video, they'll never see the plugin, which is one of the primary ways of receiving tips on your content.
What do you think about using this gif https://api.tipalink.com/static/video/tipalink-app-example-010.gif? Or, should I stick with a still image - https://api.tipalink.com/static/img/tipalink-tipalink-app-example-010.jpg?
The key difference is tips are received on content, by it's web address (hence "Tip-a-Link"), so users learn what their followers really like. There's no skin in the game to cast an upvote or a like. If people are willing to give you some money for some content and not others, that tells you something, right?
Another value proposition is your supporters don't have to pay for each tip one-at-a-time; tips accumulate in tabs and they can pay their tab like a bar or restaurant tab. More info here: https://www.tipalink.com/blog/5-reasons-to-start-using-tipalink.
That vouching idea is interesting and certainly hadn't occurred to me before as a use-case. But it's entirely possible for a supporter to do that right now by configuring the plugin with the business'/nonprofit's Tipalink Profile ID. I can write up a blog article describing how to do this and post it on the site. Thanks!
TipMyLink is more descriptive of what the service offers and reaches more directly to my end users.
The site is a semi-custom LAMP monolith running on DigitalOcean.
I don't think it sucks. I think it's a good idea and it's proven to have market fit by the likes of buymeacoffee. I think in your case, you really have to focus on marketing. I would reach out to people on youTube who don't currently provide a means for viewers to tip them.
Thanks man. Some positive feedback is much appreciated right now. ;)
Do you get visits currently? You mention you've changed the look of your homepage a bunch of times, which I assume is something you would do after you've found a way to get consistent traffic to you site.
No, the website traffic is abysmal. But my main metric is user acquisition and number of website where the plugin is installed, since the plugin is how most will use the service rather than coming to the website.
I've changed the verbiage on the home page based on the feedback I've gotten from existing users and people in my local network. I try to keep it short and to the point, and use the right keywords to attract interest.
Do you have a plan for getting more website content? I ask because I don't feel like in 2020 you build it, and then they come, I don't really think it works like that these days. I think your website is okay, it seems like you should be focused on finding ways to get more people to visit and then talk to them, and use their feedback to iterate.
Another way to say it is I think your website is good enough that feedback from potential users is better than feedback from other entrepreneurs, and likely no matter how good you make your website it won't just start getting traffic, you will need to find a way to drive traffic yourself.
Ah, that makes sense. I'm mostly talking to other entrepreneurs and people in my network. Wish I had more users to get feedback directly from them! So far just 1-2 of my users are what I'd consider "power" users and have provided great feedback already. But you're right, I need to find a way to drive traffic myself.
My plans for website content are more blog articles, and especially some highlighting user stories. But I feel I'll definitely need something else, perhaps an out-of-the-box approach.
I'm actually doing that now, writing blog articles to drive traffic, and it's hard. Everything online I consume is recommended to me in some way. Either SEO, or upvotes or the Facebook algorithm. So if you just start writing content no one really sees it, you need someone with authority in the space to post or retweet it.
I'm not counting on much organic discovery. I figure the blog can help generate a little traffic and give an SEO bump, but I see it's primary purpose is to inform my potential and existing users. Most people want to read a story, not a FAQ. But you never know, someone with authority could discover and share it, as you said. A 1% chance of that is better than a 0% chance, which I'd get if I didn't write anything! ;-P
Grab an opportunity while it's there, it's not exploitative if your intentions are pure. There are people setting up free online gift cards sites for small shops and tipping sites for service industry workers. Reach out to those that are in need, and actually looking for ways to get through this tough time. If that gets you some press and recognition that helps you in the future, win-win.
Thanks for your response. Yeah, I've seen some of those new sites. There's a local blogger in our medium-sized city who got over 500 signups on a google spreadsheet in less than a week. I have less than 100 sign ups in the last 6 months. How do I compete with that? He's got a following and user trust. I have a website with some cool features, but not much else.
The other problem is so many people are reaching out to service industry workers right now to try to help them. That's great, but it's also tough to cut through the noise.
you are not alone, many or most of us are feeling the same pain. I think this piece of content by SuperHuman founder is very insightful.
I hope it helps!
Thanks, I'll definitely check it out
It's hard to tell without more information
We have under 100 users. Half have created a profile, a little over a quarter have added the plugin to their website, and only a handful have marketed the tipping functionality to their followers. The first 15 were those in my network. The next 30 were a result of ads and posts on social media. Since then it's been a slow 1-5 new users a month. Website traffic is abysmal (too embarrassed to post). I am mostly doing cold email outreach. I've been going 6 months since starting to reach outside my network and 4 months since changing my business model from transactional to free (to be freemium with premium subscriptions).
Have you reached out to any of those unactivated users to see if they need help signing up? It could be that your onboarding process isn't effective – speaking to them will also give you insights into any barriers that's preventing them from fully activating.
You could also try improving the onboarding process with triggered emails to help people who are stuck in the pipeline, ie. if someone creates a profile but doesn't complete the next step.
If you're not generating traffic, then it's more likely to be that cold outreach isn't working for you and you need to experiment with other channels before coming to any conclusions.
How are you generating leads for cold outreach?
A great book recommendation here is Traction by Gabriel Weinberg and Justin Mares.
You won't know if it's a product problem until you fix the marketing problem first, if you're not generating traffic then it's hard to calculate where the problem lies.
I have not reached out to any unactivated users yet. Tbh, I've been more concerned with increasing the overall size of the pyramid/funnel than optimizing at each level. It's definitely on my to-do list, I just haven't prioritized it or gotten around to it yet.
My cold outreach has been from finding creatives online primarily through social media. I've also approached some who are using similar or complementary services, if I can find their contact info. I had started with reaching out to local individuals and businesses. Once I get past my network, I find it harder to get a response. I feel user trust is an issue, with a new/unknown product and unknown owner/operator.
Thanks again for the recommendations.
I looked at your site yesterday and the design is great. One thing I found might put people off is being asked for their full address just to make a donation.
Thanks. Hmm, the address was added for payment processing, but it's not necessary for every payment method, including new ones that I plan on adding, like BTC. I will update the workflow, cheers!
BuyMeACoffee:
Tipalink:
I'm a dev, have failed at startup, so I don't really know how to do it better yet.
But from what I can see as a user, when I see these 2 texts from the 2 websites:
BuyMeACoffee gives me a much better idea of the target audience (creators) and what kind of problem it solves (help creators to receive money from supporters).
Tipalink doesn't specify target an audience who has the problem of earning more money through people who like their works. Or in other words, doesn't try to solve a specific problem of a specific audience.
I learned that it's a very bad idea to be not 100% needle focus at the beginning.
Thanks. Based on some similar feedback here, I think y'all are right that focusing on a specific audience is the direction I need to take. Cheers
I know how you feel I am in the same boat with https://storycreatorapp.com/ I am struggling with getting a customer. I think we just need to get our mind right and dig deeper brother. Don't give up
I think it is a case of finding your target audience and their pain points and ways to benefit them. It feels a bit product focused and not benefit focused.
An example target could be 'Struggling mum bloggers' and the pain point would be 'Not making enough money on adsense'
If you go niche like this and find what their pain points are, you can write really good copy and articles that speak to this person. It is also much cheaper for ad targeting too as you know who your demographic is.
Focusing on a niche has been repeated by a few others and I think that may be the way to go. Thanks for reinforcing that and reminding me to focus my messaging on benefits vs. product. Cheers
Hey, I'm going to copy/paste a few questions from a comment I left for another founder. I think it would be valuable for you if you took the time to answer them:
If you had read, you will see that the product is similar to Patreon and BuyMeACoffee.
Instead of you to read the post and write your mind, you are here copying and pasting questions. What do you think you are?
Thanks, that set of questions is some great food for thought, for sure.
The short answer for Tipalink is yes, people are using Patreon and BuyMeACoffee. But no one is offering a way for others to support you and your work online with tipping the content you create directly. And no one is aggregating donations ("tips") into a tab that works like a bar or restaurant tab.
I, personally, feel like this ads value. But I can't tell the difference between being wrong (no market validation) and just sucking at getting my message out (hence this post, lol). Cheers
So, you have two unique features:
Do you have an idea of what type of content creator cares about these two features? Why are these life-saving to a subset of people already looking for a buy me a coffee type product?
Bloggers and artists have expressed an interest in the first. I think I'll focus on them for now, since I need a niche to focus on based on that repeated feedback received on by others here.
Tbh, I thought this would be a great tool for online newspapers and other third-party publishing platforms. But I can't get my foot in the door with any of them.
Tabs are more of a feature for the tippers, not the creators. Perhaps I shouldn't get into that too much in the beginning if I'm trying to market towards the latter.
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I hear ya and I should have been more clear that I've received feedback from others who feel the same. At least two marketers, for example, have told me they'd love to see it used to validate Influencers who have lots of followers and likes, but can't seem to convert customers for their clients.
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Thanks, that encouragement helps.
I'm a little shell-shocked from previous failures, so I'm torn between throwing in the towel earlier and giving it a sufficient try. What keeps me going is I'm just in love with it. Wish there wasn't so much pressure to make money...
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Love this. Persistence is key. Im feeling tested in my product as well but I wont ever give up. Needs time
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Great points.
I thought of explaining the Profile ID more like how Google does with their analytics ID. The thing is, while the plugin can abstract it away, the Profile ID must be added to web pages that don't have the plugin installed in order to verify them (like posts on third-party websites). But perhaps, like other have mentioned about concentrating on a niche of customers, I need to likewise just focus on the plugin and reduce the chatter about the Profile ID.
You bring up a valid point about Tips vs. Tabs; one that no else nor myself has identified. Wow, after so many months, I'm seriously considering changing that wording to something else. It's a tough one, because there's no clear relation. "Tip Jar" isn't right, b/c this is pre-payment (as Tabs are). Will have to think about this some...
Great feedback! Cheers
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Thanks for your candid feedback.
The Profile ID is used to identify what content belongs to what user and thus ensure the right person gets paid. Otherwise, what would stop someone from claiming they own your website and all the tips that it receives?
It's definitely not simple and I have struggled to communicate this. "Why Tabs?" is explained here: https://www.tipalink.com/faq#faq-why-tabs. And, yes, there is a plugin. However, there are multiple ways to tip: https://www.tipalink.com/blog/4-ways-to-tip-a-link.
Getting that across to users in 5 seconds or less is a tough feat. This is why I could definitely use a marketing co-founder. Your feedback has helped enforce that for me, thanks.
Do you have to explain all this? 99% of google adsense users probably don't know or care about how it works.
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Oh, and I also just thought to add: BuyMeACoffee is a YC startup and probably has raised plenty of money to help. I'm a single person underemployed developer, lol.
Thanks for your help. I may have to re-evaluate the home page again to make the value prop more clear.