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7 Comments

A marketing strategy that hasn't worked. Yet.

One of the cool things about Premium Poker Tools is that it is a web app. All of the other apps out there in this space are desktop apps or mobile apps (basically). There are a lot of advantages to being a web app, but the one I want to talk about here is the ability to have sharable URLs. Let me explain.

Suppose that you're playing poker and you look down at pocket jacks (JJ). Your open it up with a bet, a bunch of people fold, and then someone else re-raises all in. Do you call?

This is the kind of thing that people discuss on poker forums like TwoPlusTwo. And the decision of whether or not you should call depends on what your opponent is re-raising all in with. If they're only reraising all in with stuff that beats you like QQ, KK and AA, you're crushed and you should fold. But what if they start shoving with TT? 99? 88? Ace-king suited (AKs)? Ace-king offsuit (AKo)? Premium Poker Tools' equity calculator can answer these questions.

And back to the point of this post, with Premium Poker Tools, you can post something like this to the forums:

I think that they are on a range of QQ+/AK when they shove on you, and with JJ, you only have about 35% equity, so you should fold."

Notice the link. People reading your comment could click on it, see that you indeed only have 35% equity, and play around with the assumptions. Maybe they think that their opponent is also shoving JJ-88, so they add those hands in and see that against that range, their JJ has 51% equity. They can reply and say:

I actually think my opponent is shoving wider, maybe something like 88+/AK. Against that range, I have 51% equity, so it seems like a call to me.

From there, the process continues. Anyone reading that comment can click the link, see that JJ does indeed have 51% equity versus 88+/AK, and then play around with things some more.

Anyways, my app is the only one that lets you use these sharable URLs. Poker players spend tons of time in forums discussing hands, so I figured that this feature would be very appealing to them. And what's really cool is that there is a viral element to this. I start sharing URLs, two people see my URLs and decide to start sharing URLs in their posts, then four new people see theirs and also decide to start sharing URLs. So this is something that is exciting to me as a marketing strategy.

However, I haven't been having any success with it yet. I spent a bunch of time on two different poker forums - TwoPlusTwo, and the poker subreddit - discussing hands and sprinkling in those sharable URLs. Lots of people read my comments, some of them liked them a lot and thanked me for my contribution, but the viral explosion hasn't happened. In fact, it hasn't really driven any traffic to my site.

I'm not sure what to make of this. One theory I have is that I chose the wrong poker forums. That people on TwoPlusTwo and /r/poker are very casual and aren't interested in taking the time to analyze things thoroughly or click links. Many of the comments are things like "easy call", not multi-paragraph discussions.

Of course, it's also possible that my vision of this as a marketing strategy is just wrong. My gut tells me that it isn't, but we'll see. I plan on finding some more serious poker forums in the future and trying it out there, in addition to talking to users and getting their thoughts on this.

, Founder of Icon for Premium Poker Tools
Premium Poker Tools
on March 17, 2019
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    I feel for you Buddy. Getting that sales pipeline flowing is very hard for all of us.

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    What I've found with forums is that the people on those forums like to stay on them.

    Have you tried talking to more prominent posters on the forums and asking them directly if they could/would use your site as is?

    1. 1

      Thanks for the response!

      What I've found with forums is that the people on those forums like to stay on them.

      That makes sense.

      Have you tried talking to more prominent posters on the forums and asking them directly if they could/would use your site as is?

      No. But maybe I should. Thanks for bringing this up.

      On TwoPlusTwo, I'm a little bit scared, because they're really harsh on people they see as potential spammers. Anything that is remotely self-promotional. One time there was a thread of people looking for software that works on Macs, and I casually mentioned that Premium Poker Tools is a web app, and thus available on Macs, and that I'm the founder. I got a big warning from one of the mods immediately after.

      On other forums, they're usually tied to a business. One example is the Red Chip Poker forum. It's available to anyone for free, but they have competing products (sorta), and I'm not sure how I want to handle that situation. Other forums associated with businesses are usually paywalled.

      I could reach out to the mods on /r/poker though. And perhaps I'm being too hesitant about reaching out to the mods on other forums.

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        Yes it's scary. It's super scary and most people want to remain behind the keyboard. If you go out a little, it'll get easier and easier.

        Re: Competitors - Reach out to them directly and get on the phone. Find out what their intentions are. Are they really competing?

        Anecdote: I was just on the phone with two potential competitors in the past two weeks and got inside info of what they are doing. Our intentions are very different even though we are working for the same community. You never know what could happen: Maybe they need help to build the next iteration. You built something so similar so they can pay you or hire you or partner with you.

        Re: Mods - Can you reach out to the mods directly and ask them?

        Anecdote: I do this on FB groups all the time. I ask what they suggest, I offer to do an AMA. IF there's any money involved you can offer affiliate links.

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          Yes it's scary. It's super scary and most people want to remain behind the keyboard. If you go out a little, it'll get easier and easier.

          That makes sense. And now that I think about it, there isn't actually a risk in just asking. I mean, maybe it could "alert them" of me and they'll be paying more attention and possibly not allowing me to include links to my site, but I doubt it.

          Competitors

          I think my hangup is more that I don't have a plan for how I want to deal with them as opposed to knowing that I want to steer clear of them. I've been meaning to think about how I want to handle them and stuff, and then eventually get in touch with them, but it kinda keeps getting pushed down my priority list in favor of developing some new features. I really do plan on putting the feature development on pause soon in favor of looking to get users and getting in touch with potential partners though.

          Mods

          I was thinking that for paid forums, I wouldn't be able to get in touch with the mods without paying to be a member of the forum. But yeah, any mod I can find that is reachable, it seems like a good thing to do, so I agree it's something I should do. And maybe it would be worth it to pay to be a member of the forum.

          Along similar lines, finding meetup groups seems like another good thing for me to do. I found one recently and plan on looking for more as I move into more of a marketing mode than a product development mode.

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    This comment was deleted 4 years ago.

    1. 1

      That's really good to know, thanks for the feedback. Just so I can be clear, are you saying that you wouldn't bother to click the links to see the equity, or are you saying that you wouldn't use poker software to study more generally because you already have a good idea of all the numbers?

      Also, this example was overly simple on purpose because it's easier to explain. What about a situation where you argue that you should barrel the turn, for example, because of the ranges you assign Villain preflop, on the flop, and what they'd continue with on the turn? Would you think a link would be useful in that scenario?

      Example: You've got 75hh, open pre and get called. Flop comes 9h8h2s, you bet and get called. Turn comes As. Do you barrel? I'll argue that you should. That you only need about 30% fold equity, but have more like 45% based on these assumptions. My impression is that having the link a) makes it easier to show your assumption, and b) is useful for discussion because other people can mess around with assumptions and respond back to you with their thoughts.

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        This comment was deleted 4 years ago.

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          Gotcha, I understand what you're saying. Thanks for letting me know.

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