"Money is both the most important and the least important thing in the world."

Thomas Sanlis is a freelancer and teacher who has bootstrapped over 20 products. Most are in his product graveyard, but two are currently live and one of them brought in $12k last year.

Let's take a peek at his finances. 👇

The importance of money

💰 "Money is both the most important and the least important thing in the world. If you don't have any, your life can be very complicated. But if money is all you think about, you'll never be satisfied." —Thomas

Thomas didn't grow up with money, and that influenced the way he handles his finances today.

💰 "You should always have enough savings that you're ready in case of a hard blow." —Thomas

Because he wasn't taught how to handle money, he had to teach himself. He credits r/vosfinances for much of what he now knows.

These days, he says he makes more than most. But his income is unpredictable.

Unstable income

While he's making good money, Thomas' income lacks the stability that one might get from full-time employment.

💰 "I value freedom above all else." —Thomas

Luckily, these days, the only person telling him to get a real job is his grandma.

Everyone else is on board. But it wasn't always that way. He says that permanent contracts represent stability and security, and previous generations were raised with the notion that you couldn't succeed without them.

💰 "I've always been contrary and stubborn, so it doesn't bother me to do something different." —Thomas

His income is variable because he's a freelancer with a changing project load. He also teaches at an IT school a few days per month, but the number of days varies.

And then there are the one-time payments.

When he launched Uneed, he sold subscriptions to get that sweet, sweet recurring revenue. But he was worried that if customers didn't get enough clicks — which is essentially what Uneed sells — in the first month, they would churn. So he did something a little unusual.

He started charging one-time payments for a certain number of clicks. The idea being that if customers knew they'd have premium access until they got the number of clicks they were looking for, they'd be more satisfied and they'd keep coming back.

So far, it seems to be working.

Hard numbers

Let's take a look at what he's bringing in.

• Uneed revenue: $12k total in 2023
• Gumaffiliates revenue: $0 (free tool)
• Freelancing income: $1.5k-$4k/mo
• Teaching income: $2.8k-$3.5k/mo
• Founder pay: Everything (after taxes)
• Business account: Just enough for expenses
• Personal accounts: €30k

He works one or two days per week on his projects, Uneed and Gumaffiliates. The rest of the time, he works two gigs: He's a teacher at an IT school a few days per month and a freelance web developer the rest of the time.

His business expenses for Uneed are minimal:

• Total: $66/mo
• Hosting (Vercel): $25/mo
• Database/storage/functions (Supabase): $35/mo
• Analytics hosting (Digital Ocean droplet): $6/mo

And here are his personal expenses:

• Total: €2,100/mo
• Mortgage: €1,300
• Food: €300/mo
• Social/hobbies: €200/mo
• Shopping (clothes, etc.): €200/mo
• Health: €100/mo

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Money and relationships

Having money in the bank and a good amount of income is new to Thomas and it has been a big adjustment — particularly in his relationships.

Many of his friends are from early in his life when he had little money, and he says that makes for a very heterogeneous group in terms of purchasing power. And now that he has money, it creates difficult situations when deciding where to go out to eat, what Airbnb to rent, and so forth.

Sole proprietorship

Thomas has what he refers to as a "simplified status" using France's simplified sole proprietorship scheme. Essentially, his company is in his own name and any money that comes from Uneed goes through that company.

He says he pays less tax this way, but he notes that it's a risk. He doesn't have the protection of a corporation in the event of litigation.

💰 "It's a big risk. But for the moment, indie hacking only represents a small part of my income, and changing my status would mean increasing my taxes by 25% (thanks, France)." —Thomas

The flow of money

Thomas has two personal accounts and a business account.

Money goes into the business account and he pays his business expenses from there, including taxes. Beyond that, he says this account is useless. It's just a legal requirement for businesses in France.

He transfers everything else to his personal account at a traditional bank — the same one where he has his mortgage. Then he tops off the €2.3k that he keeps in his N26 account — an online bank that he uses to pay his expenses. The rest of his income stays in his traditional savings account.

Budgeting with variable income

Because his income is highly variable, Thomas relies on a budget. He doesn't get too granular with it; he just knows the maximum amount of money that he wants to spend each month, and he does his best to stick to it.

That number is €2.3k per month. It is not a coincidence that this is the amount that he keeps in his N26 account.

He uses Bankin' to get an overview of his expenses and compare his current expenses to historical ones.

It's very rare for him to exceed his budget. The last time it happened was when his computer was stolen.

Investments and debt

Thomas is new to investing. In fact, it was just a few months ago that he decided to put €1k into Apple stocks. He used a PEA (Plan d'Epargne en Actions), which is a French investment wrapper that he describes as a "savings account that allows you to buy stocks".

Thomas also recently invested in real estate when he bought a home. Other than his mortgage, he has no debt.

💰 "Take on as little debt as possible." —Thomas

Cycling = productivity

While he's just starting out with traditional investing, Thomas has invested heavily in something else. It's one of his greatest passions and it pays dividends.

💰 "Cycling is the reason I'm able to work so hard: A few hours on the bike gives me a whole day's motivation." —Thomas

Day to day, it's cheap. But he says the equipment was a really big investment initially. He has three bikes. One was only €200 — he uses that for commuting to reduce his risk when leaving it outside. But the other two were €2k and €5k, for rough paths and races, respectively. And then there's all the other equipment that is worth close to €1.5k.

It's a small price to pay.

💰 "Sports always have a positive impact on the body and mind, but cycling is the only activity that allows me to completely clear my head. When I'm on the bike, I think about NOTHING except the road and my heart rate. It's really something very special to me!" —Thomas

Living cheap

Thomas doesn't go out to eat much. He prefers cooking. He says it saves him a ton of money — he picked it up when he was low on cash — and he really enjoys it.

And there's another benefit too.

💰 "I like that eating out is occasional. It allows for more appreciation." —Thomas

When it comes to socializing, he saves money there too. He doesn't go out much, but when he does, it's a night at a game bar. It usually only costs €15, including a drink.

💰 "I find that board games are a great opportunity to spend time with friends without any technology or interface. Apart from sports, which not everyone enjoys, these kinds of moments are quite rare." —Thomas

Parting advice

Let's wrap up with a piece of advice. This is what Thomas wants to impart on indie hackers more than anything else:

💰 "Please ALWAYS have enough in your savings to last at least a year without any income." —Thomas

He plans to increase his savings to €50k to give him a little more wiggle room.

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You can find Thomas on X or Github. Or check out Uneed and Gumaffiliates.

Please note that the above are opinions. This is meant for informational purposes only. It is not intended to be financial advice.

And if you'd like to be featured as a guest in a future interview for this series, let me know in the comments!